Spirit Airlines Collapse, A Near-Miss at United, & Handling Departure Weather Delays

Tom (0:00): Engine spooled. Checklist complete. Welcome to the Black Box Aviation Podcast, where the stories behind the headlines get unpacked by the people who actually fly the damn plane. Hosted by Tom, a former military pilot turned airline and cargo, and Mike, a lifelong civilian flyer now flying left seat as an airline captain. It's aviation news, insider insight, and real pilot perspective.

Tom (0:24): Strap in.

Unknown Speaker (0:27): Alright, everybody. Here we go. Another episode of Black Box Aviation Podcast. We have got an action packed show with you this week. There's a lot of in the news stuff that is happening that we are all over.

Unknown Speaker (0:37): We are talking about everybody's talking about it. Blowing up the phones left and right. I'm gonna co host Tom joined by Mike. Mike, what's happening, sir?

Unknown Speaker (0:43): Tom, what's up, man? How you doing?

Mike (0:44): Dude, I is your phone just blowing up with all this, like, last minute news that's been happening?

Mike (0:49): There's been yeah, a little bit. Definitely getting some texts and things.

Mike (0:52): It's funny too because you get like the window of the first topic we're gonna talk about today is the Spirit Airlines shut down, but there's another topic going on with the United crash. We're gonna talk about that too. Not United crash, the United incident that could have been a massive massive disaster. It blows my mind that the the little thing that happened could have been this catastrophic thing, like unbelievable proportion. We're gonna talk about that.

Unknown Speaker (1:16): Like an inch away.

Mike (1:18): Yeah. I I it's just and and everybody's talking about it. It's in the news. It was on the the big news last night, on the news again this morning. So it's a hot topic for sure.

Mike (1:25): And then all the people stranded from Spirit, like, that's a big topic too. We're gonna talk about some departure weather issues. If you've ever been on the jet and you taxi out and, like, you pull over and the captain's like, hey. We gotta shut down and talk about some. We got some weather here, blah, blah, blah.

Mike (1:38): Maybe you're on the I've been on the jet before and you hear the thunder, like shaking the airplane and the wind gusts and the rain is you're like, what is going on? So we're gonna tell you about what's going on with that. We think about we got some other stuff too. We got a couple shout outs we got as well from the emails and the text lines. So we'll cover that too.

Mike (1:54): So welcome to the show. We're glad you're here again. But let's jump into Spirit Airlines to start the show. They have ceased operations. And I don't know, Mike, people are asking me, I think Sunday, hey, are you gonna talk about have you talked about Spirit shutting down the show yet?

Mike (2:11): I'm like, well, we've been talking about this for about a month. Yeah. Would you agree with that?

Mike (2:15): Oh, yeah. The rumors have been out there for a while, and it's you know, they keep getting new bringing in money. They kept getting new people to to, you know, invest and and they get the bondholders to extend things and eventually, they just the money ran out. But, yeah, it was you could see the writing on the wall for a while. I mean, everyone held out hope.

Mike (2:35): Right? You don't wanna see something like this happen, but it's been in the news. I mean, it's been in the aviation news for a long time.

Mike (2:42): And you made a good point about it when they were talking about the federal deal with Trump administration to get a $500,000,000 bailout. You're like, how far is $500,000,000 go in an airline that is losing billions? Like, what does that mean?

Mike (2:55): I mean, it might have bought them, and and it might have been one of those things we're just hoping to buy them some time till maybe they can get another investor or something. Don't I don't really know what they were hoping. I I I and then I think the government realized you can't pick favorites. You can't pick an airline. If you give them money, then you gotta give them all money.

Mike (3:10): I mean, you can't, you know, we have a deregulated industry for a reason, so I don't know. It's tough.

Unknown Speaker (3:16): Like we talked about too, the the Frontier and Avello were standing right on the door with with their hat out being like, hey, you know, we'll we'll take some money too if you got it. Well Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (3:25): And well Avello a

Unknown Speaker (3:26): lot of money.

Mike (3:26): I saw a headline today. Evelo said they're still gonna ask for more money even though the spirit shut out.

Unknown Speaker (3:31): They might as well.

Unknown Speaker (3:33): Yeah. Like I said Yeah. I said last week, all they can say is no. Right.

Mike (3:37): I mean That's why I asked the the head cheerleader prom, The first she could say was no. You you guess what she said?

Unknown Speaker (3:46): Yeah. That way the head cheerleader You miss all shots you don't take. Right?

Mike (3:52): Right. Yeah. You're a baseball coach. That's what you gotta do. So, dude, it is super eerie seeing the news cover this story though because you have the ticket counters where there's just nobody there, and they're all lit up.

Mike (4:04): I'm like, man, you should unplug those and save a buck right on the electricity or something. But you see the jets parked on all kinds of ramp locations, especially in Fort Lauderdale. I think was Spirit number one in Fort Lauderdale?

Mike (4:16): They were for a while. I think JetBlue surpassed them, but only recently within the last six months or so or may you know, maybe even the last two months. But, yeah, Spirit was number one for for a while before the recent stuff.

Mike (4:29): So Yeah. I think Southwest kinda elbowed in there. The between those three carriers, there was Fort Lauderdale was a huge competition market with that stuff. So but I saw them too. I don't know if you saw these news reports, Mike, but they're they're spirit customers, like, walking in the door with, like, their phones, like, with their boarding passes.

Unknown Speaker (4:49): And they're looking around, like, what where is everybody? Like, how do you not know?

Mike (4:54): I feel bad for them, but like we talked about last week, like, there's there's if if they didn't go out of business because of the the oil prices right now, it would have been because people stopped buying tickets because you're not gonna buy a ticket and not know that they're you're not gonna buy a ticket for a chip trip in July and not know if your airline's going to be there or not, you know, and people were starting to learn that even the regular public was starting to see that. So yeah, I don't know how these people walk into the terminal. After they already ceased operations, they sent out emails, they sent out text alerts and you don't know. Like, don't I don't understand that. I don't know.

Mike (5:27): But I mean, I'm with you too, Mike. I wouldn't be buying the family vacay package tickets on Spirit, you know, in April thinking maybe, you know, in July when I can do that trip, like, there's no such thing as Spirit. That's definitely What's

Mike (5:39): crazy is, like, you knew when they kind of announced that they were gonna cease operations at, 3AM Saturday morning. I was up Friday night, and I was looking. Was like, you can still buy tickets. I'm like, I'm like Maybe they're holding out hope,

Unknown Speaker (5:52): you know? And what if the that bailout comes in at the last minute, then they took the website down, like, I guess that's why you would do it. Right?

Mike (6:00): I guess. I mean, I don't know how you can sell tickets for something you know is not gonna exist. That's called fraud, I thought. But yeah. I mean, I guess you don't know.

Mike (6:08): I mean, you're holding out hope that might come in, you know, and but it sounds like, know, the talks broke down late in the week, and it just wasn't gonna happen.

Mike (6:17): Yeah. So at end of the day, like, we're making jokes about this to start and making light of it because it's just a weird situation. You don't see this happen at all hardly any time in the last nineties. Right? Yeah.

Mike (6:29): No. You had independence had independence there. Yeah. And what was that like, go six ish or whatever around there, give or take a couple years because that's the one that their certificate went to Compass. Yeah.

Mike (6:40): Right. Yep. Yeah. And then I mean, last year you had mean, it's very small, but you had what's that pink prop plane down in South Wow. Oh, oh.

Mike (6:52): Saw them in San Juan a lot.

Mike (6:53): Yeah, can't think of the name.

Mike (6:56): But they just went out. But that was just I mean, they're small.

Mike (6:59): That was a small feeder. They had sobs and then they got like like cues

Unknown Speaker (7:04): or something Remember like

Unknown Speaker (7:06): Skybus was another one. Yep.

Mike (7:09): But for a big airline, that was like a real portion of the the flying public, you know, as big as I mean, you're gosh, you do have to go back to the nineties on like Pan Am or something.

Mike (7:19): Yeah. And Spirit was around for thirty something years. It's not like they were It's just

Mike (7:23): it's been around a lot longer than people realize.

Mike (7:26): Yeah. But the sad part about it is there's about about 17,000 people that work for Spirit when you throw in everybody that works there. You know, from an abrupt shutdown like that, these people are left out of work, and that sucks. There's 2,000 pilots, 5,000 flight attendants. You got the mechanics and the dispatchers, you got the ground crews, and there's a lot of finger pointing going on.

Mike (7:48): You see people point fingers at Biden administration, people are pointing fingers at Robin Hayes from the JetBlue issue, then that that kind

Mike (7:56): of pointing fingers at Robin Hayes. I mean, you can say what you want about him and where the situation that JetBlue's in right now is not too hot, but what because the merger

Mike (8:04): didn't go through? Yeah. Because the merger did happen and because the way that JetBlue had set it up that the the follow on merger with Frontier was pretty much dead on arrival. So I I saw some stuff that was was blaming him for that.

Unknown Speaker (8:17): What? He doesn't want two of his competitors to merge? I mean, good for him. He's got he's looking out for his company, you know? I don't

Mike (8:23): that's Yeah. I that's what saying. Everybody's just got their finger out saying, oh, it's his fault. It's this guy's fault. It's this guy's fault.

Mike (8:30): But United right now, they claim that they've already booked 14,000 Spirit passengers that were stranded. They're offering a $199 fares for for those stranded passengers. And then JetBlue jumped on it as well. They were helping a lot of the Yeah.

Mike (8:48): Saw JetBlue. If you if you booked the same route the same day so, like, let's say you had a a flight, you know, next next Wednesday. If you booked it on JetBlue the same route, so the odds of you finding the same route on the same day on JetBlue with open seats, I don't know. They're selling for $99.

Unknown Speaker (9:05): That's great. I mean, that's what you got. That's great branding. Right? Like, hey, I'm gonna help you Now

Mike (9:10): if you Now if that Wednesday flight was full and you had to do it another day, maybe I don't know what they did. Maybe they I hope they still helped them out. I don't know, though.

Unknown Speaker (9:17): But Yeah. I saw the people that were, like, in The Caribbean, like, we're stranded. What are we gonna do? And we talked about this last week, Mike.

Mike (9:23): Especially The Caribbean. Yeah. There's not much you you're kinda out of options. At least if you got stranded in Florida, you could rent a car and drive home, you know. But if you're in The Caribbean, it's you can't, you know, like

Unknown Speaker (9:32): You can't swim. I would swim, maybe. That's a tall order. That's a tall order. No.

Mike (9:38): It's totally true. And and, you know, you but I'm I'm I think it's great that, you know, JetBlue's offering that, those kind of fares to people. And I'm sure they And

Mike (9:46): we and I brought that up last week when you when you asked, and I was like, historically airlines have taken care of they've jumped on that bandwagon. One, it's the right thing to do, but two, you might grab a new customer for the long term like, hey, JetBlue, helped me out, you know, Southwest helped me out, United helped me out, And the product wasn't that bad. You know, I never been on them before. It was actually really good. You know, and now they get the credit card or something, you know.

Mike (10:11): And let's face it, you know, why do this sounds totally sick and it just cost my mind. But like, why do you think funeral funeral directors and stuff start selling funerals and plots of land to the kin after somebody dies? It's because they're gonna attach on to that emotional attachment. Right? The airlines could do that too.

Mike (10:31): These people are down, you know, they're they're and all of sudden you cheer them up, and then you sell them a credit card.

Mike (10:35): Yeah. I saw a guy that said, well, you know, spirits let us down. We we stuck with you for thirty years, and you let us down. So yeah, there isn't an emotional emotional connection, you know, with the the passenger and the product and everything else. So yeah, I that

Mike (10:49): there's a online push for people to buy the airline themselves or something. I think I sent that to you.

Unknown Speaker (10:54): Yeah. You were telling me that. Didn't quite understand it because I was mowing my parents lawn, so maybe

Unknown Speaker (10:59): that's why I

Unknown Speaker (11:00): was distracted. It was

Mike (11:00): like the average Spirit ticket is $45, and they and they flew I don't know how many millions of people. If everybody that flew on Spirit chips in 44 $45 will have, you know, enough money to buy the airline and they were gonna like it's the green the way the Green Bay Packers are owned by the people. Right? And like the people can own Spirit Airlines and they've raised like they've raised some money already, like millions of dollars already. Don't know what will

Unknown Speaker (11:24): happen to that pot when the whole thing goes.

Unknown Speaker (11:26): That's what I want to know. Like, you get your money back if it doesn't go through?

Unknown Speaker (11:30): You're like, I just blew another $45 on Spirit, not again. Thank God.

Mike (11:35): And someone and someone's taken the millions of dollars and moving, like, to some island, you know

Unknown Speaker (11:39): Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (11:40): Changing the name.

Mike (11:41): He painted he can paint his house yellow, Spirit yellow. Yeah, dude. Check it out.

Mike (11:45): Yeah. It's spirit two point o. Let's buy spiritair.com. Wow. That's wild.

Unknown Speaker (11:51): I don't know. It says he's already raised $88,000,000.

Mike (11:54): Oh, that's that's wild. I don't even know I guess people at $45 to toss in the hat and

Mike (12:00): But if they needed 500,000,000 from the from the government, 88 is still a long ways. It's a lot of money, but they're not they're not close.

Mike (12:09): If you actually, Mike and I wanna bring this up right now. We are in the spirit of saving Spirit Airlines. You can send us not $45, just give us like 15. That's cool. Just send it right in.

Mike (12:20): We'll we'll take care of it. Don't worry about it. It's all good. And No. I have.

Mike (12:24): Black box Spirit And and like you said, like, you don't want we're we're making light of it because it's it's a really crappy situation, man. And I was up all night Friday night, you know, I've mentioned I've said this phrase multiple times, you don't want to dance on someone's grave, you know, and it's like, it's gonna be good for the industry as a whole. It's gonna be good for all the airlines. They can raise their prices now a little bit and and you know, so my company may make some more money, you know, somebody else's company may but man, you don't want to go out like that. You don't want to do you don't wish that on.

Mike (12:50): I have friends at Spirit, you know, lots of friends from flight school and, and from all the airlines I worked at, know, I know a dozen people there, know, and it's you just don't wish that on anybody. And and everyone's like, well, United's hiring, Delta's hiring, American's hiring, you know. I'm sure, you know, if JetBlue's gonna grow Fort Lauderdale, they'll start hiring. And and yeah, that's true. But in aviation, for those that don't know, you don't just it's not like you just go from Procter and Gamble to Johnson and Johnson and keep your same pay rate or even get a raise.

Mike (13:18): You start all over. Year one pay. So you got guys that are making 300 an hour as a captain, and now they're gonna go down to, you know, first year pay. Mean, it's a huge pay cut. And now maybe they were driving to work in Fort Lauderdale.

Mike (13:31): Now they got to commute to work in Newark, New Jersey. Man, it's a lifestyle change. It's a it's the money. It's the it's the friends and the family that you made. It's it's heartbreaking.

Mike (13:43): I mean, it really is heartbreaking. I wouldn't wish it on anybody.

Mike (13:47): It's a huge shift. And when when Mike and I were flying at Compass in Detroit, Spirit had a big Detroit base. Actually, I remember with them being on strike in 2010, and the picket line there, you know, we saw that, and then they broke the strike and got what they wanted in 2010, but this is irrelevant to this the going out of business stuff. But at that time, you know, we worked for Compass and we were always looking for like, hey, where where's our next job? Because we didn't wanna stay at the regional, we're trying to get hired at major, and even if we could at the legacy, but at the time there's no jobs.

Mike (14:17): Like, you're in the middle of the Great Recession, like, there's still real bad stuff going on and they're still coming out of their bankruptcy contracts and and fights like that. But you I remember being on, like, the Clarion bus from the crash pad with there'd be like two, you know, Compass flight attendants and, you know, they were like pinnacle guys. One guy was like, oh, I just got an interview at Spirit. And I was envious of him because he's gonna get it, potentially go fly the the Airbus and, you know, from Compass to Spirit at that time, just taking that little jump in that world, I mean, it was probably like a 70% pay increase. So I was like, wow, that's really good.

Unknown Speaker (14:54): And Spirit

Unknown Speaker (14:54): guys wouldn't have left. They would have seen it.

Mike (14:56): Right? Spirit's latest contract was pretty good. They had some of the better work rules in the industry. So there I mean, if you had some seniority and you were living in base with those work rules, there's no reason to leave. And prior to the pandemic, they were printing money at Spirit.

Mike (15:09): They were making so much money. I think their stock was like $50.60 dollars a share or something that I'm not even gonna look at this. They were cranking it out, man. Yeah. And after the pandemic when everything shift from you know, budget airlines to premium, they just weren't able to catch back up.

Mike (15:24): Yeah, we've talked about it numerous times and it's gonna keep coming up the way that the legacies have adapted to kind of crush that low cost model.

Mike (15:31): Because now you can buy the same type of airfare that you could on Spirit. You can buy it on Delta, plus get the Delta Air Miles, right? And then save up for that trip to Hawaii that Spirit couldn't take you on. So I mean, I get it and that's a doggy dog world, right? And it's the business.

Mike (15:44): It's it's a tough business. They always say, do you want to become a millionaire? They say start with a billion and buy an airline, you know, because That's tough. It's it's it's just a brutal industry. I mean, I love my job.

Mike (15:57): But man, I there I'm sure you've had it, Tom. There's many sleepless nights where you're like, what is gonna happen?

Unknown Speaker (16:02): Are you talking are you not asking me? I sleep a bit. Are you kidding me? I'm I'm a mess over here. Like, the stuff that I've seen in the time that I've been in, you're like, yeah.

Mike (16:11): Man, and it's not even like and we're at good airlines and we're we're in good spots and it's still stressful, don't like I'm gonna relax until I'm 65.

Mike (16:20): It's a fact, yep. And it's like, it's one those things you hear people like, well, you'll never know what if you made the right decisions in your career path till it's over, and that's that's a hard thing to say, like, if you were at IBM, like you said before, or Procter and Gamble, like, just

Mike (16:33): It's path. You just go you can you can you just apply for another job. And and and, yeah, maybe it's hard. Maybe you're stuck for a little while, but at some point, you can find another business job in the business world making about what you're making now and maybe even more. You can go in and say, hey, this is what I'm making here.

Mike (16:48): I want to I'll come work for you, but I need to make 5% more or whatever. You hear these stories all the time and people they change jobs for better benefits or better. We can't do that. We just can't. I mean, it's I mean, I got three kids I'm trying to put through college debt free.

Mike (17:03): Like, I can't just start over, you know, and and I look at these spirit guys and I'm sure they're in the same boat that I am. Only now they don't have a job. So they they start over. They'll get hired at United. They'll get hired at American.

Mike (17:14): They're gonna give them preferential hiring, but they're gonna start year one pay on reserve commuting to work for with a $200,000 pickup.

Mike (17:23): Yeah. Like you said, Mike, you could have been you could be a senior, you know, senior captain top scale at Spirit making $3.50 an hour, and all of a sudden, you're gonna start at Delta United at a 120, like, that's it's a 67, 70% pay cut. That's what that's what it is. If you got the a same 90

Mike (17:42): percent seniority cut, like, you're never gonna get Christmas. And if you're 45, 50 years old, you'll never you'll work every Christmas for the rest of your career. Yep. You'll never And be

Mike (17:52): thank God, like, they have that option because there are times when that wasn't an option. Like, it was a downturn economy and you were out of luck. Like, there was $0. Your

Mike (17:59): pay And rate truth was to that. There's truth to that. I mean, this is if your airline was gonna shut down, this is a good time for it to happen. Because you can go get those jobs that are out of bankruptcy now that have got these new contracts that we've talked about numerous times on the show. The contracts right now are very good.

Mike (18:18): As opposed to like when independence went out of business and these guys were just hoping to get jobs like at Compass or when ATA went out and, you know, we flew those captains at Compass, you know, they're starting over at $30 an hour, you know, like it's so it is better. But the cost of living has gone up in the last twenty years too. So that, you know, man, it's tough.

Unknown Speaker (18:38): It's a hit. They still

Mike (18:39): have mortgages, they still got mortgages, they still have all that what are they supposed to do? Just put their house up for sale now because they can't afford the mortgage payment?

Unknown Speaker (18:45): Like you say,

Mike (18:45): you I'm sure someone's doing it. Someone's probably talking to the realtor right now.

Unknown Speaker (18:50): I agree. I agree.

Mike (18:53): You talked about it. You hope the mental health thing you hope those guys are alright. And I hope that if any of them watch the show, reach out, you know. Yeah, please Come you know, like, I mean, I wouldn't want I wouldn't wish this on my, you know, worst enemy. My heart breaks for them.

Mike (19:09): Like it's it's really tough, man. Didn't sleep well Friday night and I knew I was gonna have a job on Saturday. Right. So I can't imagine these guys.

Mike (19:15): Yeah. I've seen there's some people recorded some of the captain announcements, you know, like, the guy's emotional, like, thank you for flying with us, and, you know, good good luck in the future. Like, there's there's guys that are just that are hurt, and and girls. So, yeah, please, if if you got if you are a spirit pilot or work at spirit, send us an email, theblackbox01@yahoo.com. Text us in (203) 699-6792 with the plug there, And then tell us your story.

Mike (19:43): We'll we'll talk about it. We have you on the show. I'd love to have you on the show as a guest. The door is open if you wanna come on the show. We we I'm sure this this is interesting stuff.

Unknown Speaker (19:51): So

Mike (19:51): And I sent you the story of the the spirit pilot that missed his retirement flight. Like, his retirement flight was supposed to be over the weekend or whatever, and they shut down. So they canceled his retirement flight. I mean, now granted, he made it to 65. Yeah.

Mike (20:05): Yeah. So financially, he's probably fine. But like, you know, he's not gonna have that memory of that last flight, you know, and but Southwest took care of him. Like, he went home on Southwest and and they did this big they did the whole ceremony for me. He got the water cannon salute, they gave him a bottle of champagne and a cake and everything when he got off the airplane and it was really cool because it's

Mike (20:24): not even his airline, you know. That is such like a a big step for Southwest to be like, hey, we're gonna we're gonna make a big deal of this because we care, you know, that's their whole motto. They care. Right?

Mike (20:35): I'd like I hope I I I I would like to think most airlines would have done something similar had they known, There's probably other guys that were close to retirement and they just went home and sat in the back and were quiet, right? And nobody even knew. But yeah, this guy's son worked for South or Southwest. Oh, he did. So he was able to, like, message the pilots or something.

Mike (20:56): And then they they they made a made a big deal about it. So that was really cool. So that was like That's good. You know, that's how they found out. I don't think the guy went on there and said, I missed my retirement flight.

Unknown Speaker (21:04): You know, I think it was his son that spoke up for him. Yeah. And I that's great. I would

Unknown Speaker (21:08): have done the same thing if I knew

Mike (21:09): it. Think it's awesome. You mentioned how you you emailed the the JetBlue captain so that you know, to take care of your daughter or whatever, you know, I mean,

Unknown Speaker (21:17): like During the training trip. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (21:18): Yeah. So I mean, shout out

Unknown Speaker (21:19): for that too.

Mike (21:20): That's feel like that's kinda like what happened here. But, yeah, I think that's totally cool. I and if I was the captain and I got that email, I would like I would have done what I could do, you know. Mean, hopefully, it would be more than a PA, you know. But

Mike (21:33): Yeah. PA shout if that's all you could do, it's worth you went above and beyond the call right there, Mike. It's something, you know. JetBlue says they understand that some Spirit flight attendants and pilots are stranded, so to help support them during the time, they're gonna extend their pilot jump seat and flight attendant cabin jump seat agreements for the next two weeks for space available. So, you know, again, that's just another company looking out for, you know, people that are out there, they understand.

Mike (21:56): Like, we told the story about the ETA guys.

Mike (21:58): These people weren't home. They these people, they they, you know, they're out of house stations, and now they their company's out of business. They gotta figure out how to get home.

Mike (22:04): Yep. American has a dedicated link for Spirit pilot direct applications, and and I clicked on that. I went through it, and then it has links to a bunch of other stuff like, you know, all kinds of operation stuff, crew scheduling, flight planning, mechanics, and everything like that. So American already has their job site up to to attract Spirit candidates. And look, that's a great candidate to pull the hire from, these people that know what they're doing.

Unknown Speaker (22:31): Right?

Mike (22:32): Yeah. And I mean, you know, so you Spirit's always been the butt of jokes. Right? But it's mostly because of some of their customers. You

Unknown Speaker (22:38): never hear the

Mike (22:38): jokes about the people working there. The people working there have been top notch professionals. They've never had a fatal accident there. They've never had I mean, they're top notch, right? I've had them on my jump seat.

Mike (22:49): I've met them in the airports. Like I said, I went to flight school with some of them top notch. They got the old military guys. They got the other airline guys. They got the guys that got furloughed from Delta and United in the 90s and early 2000s that went to Spirit, and then just didn't go back because their life was too good at Spirit.

Mike (23:03): They got all that. So they're just like they got the same people that work at these other airlines, right? So yeah, they're the butt of the joke, but it was because of the customers, not because of the people that work there.

Mike (23:14): I've jumped set on them before and I was not in uniform, but I talked to the crew beforehand, and they everything in spirit was, like, a la carte, so you had to buy, like, snacks and buy everything else, and they would I would added more my backpack my backpack would be full of everything. They just gave me everything. They were so nice to so professional. It's a great You ate

Mike (23:35): them you ate them right out of business, didn't you, Tom?

Mike (23:37): I did. That's it's my fault. Yep. They they called me the trash can and now they're out of business. So that's that.

Mike (23:45): Well, we'll talk about this if anything else comes about about the spirit, if there's more spirit stories out there. And again, like we said, if if you're out there, send us an email. Let us know what your story was, if you got stranded or whatever. We'll talk about spirit again as as it comes in. So but this one, Mike, this is in the news and it is getting bigger by the second.

Mike (24:03): Almost as big as that seven six four hundred looked as it went over the freeway in Newark. And it's way too big.

Unknown Speaker (24:11): Way too close. Absolutely nuts.

Mike (24:14): So if you haven't seen this, yesterday, a seven six four hundred was landing on the Visual Expressway Visual Runway 29 in Newark, which is across one runway for the fours and the what is it? Two Twos. So it's landing to the west. If you've ever driven on 95, gone south, once you get on the other side of whatever bridge you cross Manhattan and you're going southbound, I guess that's a Jersey Turnpike, you will see the Newark. You'll see the airport and the the Runway 4 is parallel that runway the highway, and then Runway 29 is perpendicular.

Mike (24:51): So literally, the jets come right over. Mike, have you landed on Runway 29 in the expressway?

Unknown Speaker (24:54): I have. I've done it multiple times.

Unknown Speaker (24:56): Well, now they don't

Mike (24:56): I don't know when the last time you've done it. They do have the visuals there, but they all they have RNAV approaches now, and it's built into the box. So you have the guidance to the runway. So it's not even like it was in the past. If this happened ten years ago, I'd be a little more understanding than I am now because ten years ago, you just eyeballed it the whole way.

Mike (25:14): Right? Yeah, totally. Now you have guidance all the way in. And so I'm my mind is like, mind boggling, literally mind boggling how something like this could happen. I'm a big pro pilot, pilot defender, and this one's hard to swallow.

Mike (25:29): Yeah. The RMP makes that such a different approach and it makes it way safer.

Mike (25:34): But even if you're doing the RNAV, you're still gonna have vertical guidance, you know, like, I mean, like, you Yep. And then you have the PAPI right there. It's on the right side of the runway. It's too white, too red or whatever. Like, I mean, if you're full red and sinking, it's probably time to go around.

Unknown Speaker (25:47): I like my joke. I got two white.

Unknown Speaker (25:49): They were four red. Two good

Unknown Speaker (25:50): brake lights brake lights Mike.

Mike (25:51): They were so low they're probably looking up at the lights. I mean like

Unknown Speaker (25:56): Yeah, they're looking up at lights and don't know what you're talking about.

Mike (26:00): You know, we talk about like if you're unstable, like most airlines, it's a thousand feet sometimes it'll go down to 500 feet in VFR conditions, right? So at 500 feet if you're not stable, worst case scenario, that's when you go around. Like I said, a lot of airlines now are a thousand feet. So let's say they're 500 feet because I don't know, right? Especially in visual conditions.

Mike (26:18): They were still well below 500 feet. And it's one of that like acceptance of deviance, know, where it's like, well one day I was stable at four fifty feet and it worked out. So the next day I was 400 feet 300 feet. Where do you draw the line before you hit the bread truck? You know, and say that because that's what they did they hit a bread truck and a light pole.

Unknown Speaker (26:37): He's on the highway.

Mike (26:39): I don't know how that guy lived. I mean, that guy needs to go buy a lot of ticket. He just got trucked by a seven sixty seven at 140 miles an hour.

Mike (26:47): Yeah, I have no idea how that worked out. I can't believe it

Mike (26:51): didn't break the landing gear off the airplane. I mean, that that kudos to Boeing for building solid landing gear on that seven six, you know. I mean, it's nuts.

Mike (27:00): Yeah. I'm learning about the triple seven landing gear. They they're they're a bad whamajama. So I agree.

Mike (27:06): Just like, you know, I mean, there's nothing we talked about go arounds last week, and you said how you you you know, you had a captain call for a go around once because there was a little and you're like, it wasn't that bad, but, you know, he called it. You guys went around. You talk about it later. No big deal. So I'm curious if like the CVR comes out with this in an investigation and somebody called a go around, the other guy said, nah, I got it.

Unknown Speaker (27:25): That would be really bad.

Mike (27:27): Would be really good. Happened at Southwest. That one time when they went off the runway, That was think was the FO was like go around or whatever and the captain took control and said, no, I got it. And then they landed halfway down the runway and went off the end. To me, like, I think there's a lot of things, you know, I'm all for the ASAP program and self reporting and and trying to pick each other up and but at some point, there's gotta be a line of like, okay, you're past this line.

Mike (27:49): There's nothing we can do for you. We don't know what happened. You know, exactly. I know the wind it was windy, but it was the weather was good. It was just gusty.

Mike (27:57): That's why they were landing on 29. Yeah. And I know it's a short runway. It's like 6,700 feet long. So maybe they were eyeing the numbers and trying to drag it in.

Mike (28:07): If you if you gotta do that, then you gotta you gotta turn it down and say it's too short of a runway. I mean, I don't I don't know, man.

Mike (28:14): So this jet came from Italy, so it was a long Atlantic flight. Maybe fatigue comes comes into the picture, but yeah, as soon as it happened, I pulled the weather at Newark and it was three zero zero two zero gust 36 with 10 miles of his. There was no ceiling, you know, and I it was windy at my house, like, yeah, I know I don't live that far far from Newark. Was listening to Yankee game, they're saying, you're swirling winds down here. So, yeah, it Hartford Bradley had a gust of 40.

Mike (28:37): It's a windy day, but Runway 29 with a three zero zero two zero gust 36, like, you're 10 degrees off. You got a you got a pretty strong headwind there. And like Mike saying, when you fly that RMP, you're getting specific point to point guidance with a glide path that the the jet is telling you this is where you need to be. And when they build that approach, it has safety margins on there so that if you hit those fixes at the altitudes that you're supposed to hit them at, you're gonna have plenty of ground clearance. They call it TURPS.

Mike (29:04): And that's what you have on the ground that clears you. And there's different criteria for how the obstacle clearance safe flight paths, you know, for different approaches and landings. But for this is a terminal instrument approach, and then they clear they make clearance for that to make sure that you're going to make it. Like, there's no like, well, that time I got I I I got real close to the light post. No.

Unknown Speaker (29:23): If you're

Mike (29:23): on everything There's room for error there. Right? Like, they don't like, there's room for error. There's a buffer zone there. Right?

Unknown Speaker (29:29): I mean, when they did when they create the terps and everything, you know?

Mike (29:32): So And if you get on that path and you don't like where you're at, like, you're not a glider, so you add power, you change your glide path, you increase where you're at. And then Mike said, we were goofing around about seeing the whites and the reds, and I said, you you can see the brake lights, which that's kinda what it was here. But what we look at is a precision approach path indicator, and it's a visual aid system system for us to look at. It's usually four lights on the left side of the runway. That's pretty standard where it's at.

Unknown Speaker (29:58): It's on the right side here.

Mike (30:00): On the right side? Yeah. And you'll see it on on your approach plate. You'll see, like, where it's at, and you can tell

Unknown Speaker (30:06): That's how I know it's on the right because I was looking at I was just now looking at the approach plates because I wanted to see what approaches they had before I came in here and ran my mouth. You know what I mean? Like

Unknown Speaker (30:13): Right. That's good.

Mike (30:14): But yeah, happy on the right with a rail with a rail system. So runway and identify runway and identifier lights as well, which is like blinking strobes.

Mike (30:23): Yes. So then you have reels. So you have the lights that are showing you a buffer out in front of the runway as well. So it's not like you're just take it's not like an aircraft carrier, where it just there's a cliff and then runway. Like, there's a lot of things helping you.

Mike (30:34): And that PAPI light's gonna show you like a three degree glide path that's gonna be, you know, like a three to one descent. And that's gonna clear the highway and the lights way plenty. And you'll see

Unknown Speaker (30:44): It is. It's it's three degrees at at Newark for two nine. It's a two Sometimes it's a little different, but it is it is three.

Mike (30:50): And it might different depend on how big of jet you're at, like if I see five, sometimes it'd be a little bit different. So it's just gonna be your angle. The bigger jet might have a lower thing, but that that you take that in consideration. But if you see two white and two red, it'll be for a line of four, two whites on the left, two and two reds on the right, like you're on the glide path. If you see all four red, you are low, and there should be other indications telling you that you are low.

Mike (31:13): In that case, Mike, I'd say, hey, Mike, you're a little low.

Mike (31:17): And hopefully, I say correcting. Correcting.

Unknown Speaker (31:19): That would be what I'd wanna hear.

Unknown Speaker (31:20): I'm Mike's correcting. If he doesn't see

Unknown Speaker (31:23): the change happen. I need to see the change happen. If I see us get more grass and more cars and more bread trucks, then I'm gonna be like, what are you doing? Let's go around. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (31:33): And that's the end of that. And that's the scary part, Mike, that you said, like, what if the other guy said it and they didn't do it? And you can hear the engines screeching.

Mike (31:41): This coming like you said, they're coming back from Rome, Italy, and so there's probably a second officer. There's a probably a guy in the jump seat. So there's three of them there sitting there watching it, I'm sure.

Mike (31:50): Yeah. Because there's a a relief pilot that came back with him.

Mike (31:53): Yep. So you gotta think that I don't know, man. I I don't know. I I would I hope that's not what happened, like, let's go around, nah, I got it. But at the same time, I've been I I would not bet against that.

Mike (32:06): I would I would not I'm not saying that's what happened. I'm not saying it didn't happen. If I if the news comes out tomorrow and we find out that's what happened, I'm not gonna be, Oh shocker. Like, I I wouldn't I'd be like, Yep. I'm not surprised.

Mike (32:17): There is that ego thing. There's that whole like, I got it. I got it. Oh, I don't want go. I don't want not just the ego of I got it.

Mike (32:23): Like, it's also the I don't want to inconvenience the people behind me. I don't want to inconvenience us. I don't want to inconvenience other people. I don't want to embarrass myself and go around like go around man. He lied to the people.

Mike (32:35): Tell them that you went around because somebody the dog ran on the runway. I don't know. You know, we talked about JetBlue hitting a coyote a month ago or whatever. Like, yeah, there's coyotes on the runway. We went around.

Mike (32:44): I mean, just whatever you do to make yourself feel better. But gosh, don't put the plane in a dangerous situation. Yeah, the seven six four hundred.

Mike (32:52): This is a ER. It's got two Pratt and Whitney. Actually, there could be both kinds. There's a GE CF six in there as well, but this is a massively powered brand new airplane. Like, it's got everything you need to get out of there, and it's a very maneuverable airplane.

Mike (33:07): I I am flown the seven six. I've flown flown on it a gazillion times. I've seen go rounds on the seven six. I've ridden

Mike (33:12): mean, designed to be able to do these go rounds on one engine. In case you blow them over, you should still be able to climb away. So they definitely have the power, right? Especially after the flight when especially after the flight where they burned all the gas, right? So it's not heavy.

Mike (33:24): And God forbid, this guy is trying to make a commute home or some nonsense. Know, mean, some of this stuff is gonna come out in an investigation, right? You get that get home it is. You learn about this stuff in in human factors class when you're going through flight school. There's a thing called get home it is where Oh my gosh, I gotta get home for my kids baseball game or I'm tired of being on the road or whatever.

Mike (33:43): And sometimes you make stupid decisions because of that. So you got to be conscious of that. And, you know, and fight it.

Unknown Speaker (33:51): And and that's I mean, approach

Mike (33:52): to all of us. Right? You just gotta know about And

Mike (33:55): that approach too, like that like you said, Mike, earlier, the runway is shorter than the other ones. Like, one of the the other runway is like 10,000, 11,000 feet long. So this is a shorter runway, and but if you're light, you're gonna run the numbers for the distance. You know you've got it. So

Mike (34:08): And that's assuming you're touching down in the first third of the like, like 1,500 feet down the runway. So it's not saying you're touching down at the very beginning of the runway. So if you get legal landing data, you're looking at landing in the first third of the runway. So, I mean, you're you're aiming at the thousand foot marker. So even if you hit your aim point or you're off on your aim point, you're still on the runway.

Mike (34:26): These guys were well below that and clearly were short of the runway. So Yeah. I don't know what they were looking at.

Mike (34:32): It could be curious if they're talking about having it be a short runway because that can get in your mind that you think you have to be so low. And there is a

Mike (34:40): stress level, right? I've gone in I've landed on 29. It's always windy when you land on 29. That's why they're using it. So you are a little more amped up.

Mike (34:47): You do have that adrenaline going. So there are times where you're like, I'm gonna maybe drag it in below the, you know, one dot low on the glide slope, you know, over the threshold. You know, you gotta be careful about doing stuff like that.

Unknown Speaker (34:58): But like you said, the RNP kinda takes a lot of that, you know, eyeball game out of it where you know that the glide path is showing it to you. And, you know, and I've flown the MD 11 into that approach. I've flown the Airbus and

Mike (35:11): Our RNPs are so accurate now that we're not even per at least for our I don't know how other airlines do it, but at our airline we're not even allowed to turn the autopilot off until minimums. Like the autopilot flies it because it is so accurate that, you know, it's just it's right on the money.

Mike (35:26): Yeah, it really is. But if

Mike (35:28): you there's so much stuff out of it now. They might not have been using the RNP. They might have just been doing the RNAV. There's RNAV there's multiple RNAV approaches and there's multiple RNPs. So they are RNAV, but it's still gonna give you the vertical guidance though.

Mike (35:40): It's just not gonna, you know, it's still gonna give you that three degree guide path, you know.

Mike (35:44): So And that could change the reg that says you have to do that. Maybe the seven sixty can't do the RNP. I can't see why it wouldn't. I mean, the MD 11 couldn't do that. Sometimes it was certified, sometimes it wasn't.

Unknown Speaker (35:56): But But

Mike (35:56): either way either way, by that point on the approach, they're looking at four red lights. I don't care what technology they have. You know what I mean? Like, you can drive by on the turnpike and look out the window and see four red lights. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (36:07): You know? So

Mike (36:08): And this is gonna be on the news again tonight. So if you if you it's gonna be out there. So if you've seen it, more and more pictures coming out. But you see them hit the the street lamp. They hit a lamp, and then it looks like the tie the wheel trucks hit that bread truck too.

Mike (36:23): I mean, so how I mean, you go into the hypothetical hypotheticals of this airplane hits the highway and skids over that embankment and onto that

Mike (36:37): You know what I thought about was the Delta that was it the Delta one? Was it 01/1991 that crashed with the windshield with the microburst in the Dallas? I can't remember if that was the flight number or not. But they got slammed into the highway and then split across and I mean, killed everybody on the plane and a bunch of people on the highway.

Unknown Speaker (36:54): Yep.

Mike (36:55): You know? And then they hit they hit the light pole. Thank God there wasn't power lines attached to the light pole. I mean, there's so many what ifs and it, you know, they literally, I mean, it probably lived by an inch. I mean, you see that one picture.

Mike (37:09): It almost looks like it's AI, but I'm pretty sure it's real. Right before it hits the truck and the wheel is like, it must have just skimmed the top of the truck, which was enough force and flipped the truck. Right? But an inch lower and it really might rip the landing gear off. And now what?

Unknown Speaker (37:24): Yep. A catastrophe. It is. A 100% catastrophe. It's a

Unknown Speaker (37:30): would not be talking about this the way we're talking about now. That's for sure.

Mike (37:33): So I mean, I'm thankful for that. I just goodness. I don't know what

Mike (37:37): That's almost what makes it kind of interesting to talk about. Right? It's like that close to being that horrible, and it wasn't.

Mike (37:45): And last week, we talked about how many more are there more near misses? Are we just are we over exaggerating it? Like this one's pretty legit, man. This one is a big deal. This one would have made the news even before social media, I think.

Unknown Speaker (37:57): You know? Yep. Absolutely.

Mike (37:59): This is one that you can't just sweep under the rug. Because they actually did they did some damage. Knocked over a light pole and knocked over a red

Mike (38:05): truck. Yeah. I heard the tapes from the air traffic patrol when they're rolling out, and they must have told something to the because air traffic patrol is talking to the runway sweep. They went out, and the runway's closed. The runway's closed till, like, I think 11:00 this morning.

Mike (38:19): Obviously, they're probably running all kinds of NTSB data and stuff like that. But the crew said that they felt something over the threshold. So their perception right there with that comment, because that's what the the guy on the ground says to the runway sweep that's going out. He says, they felt something over the threshold. And then he says, there's a hole in the airplane.

Unknown Speaker (38:41): Have you heard those tapes?

Mike (38:42): I heard that, but I didn't, you know.

Mike (38:44): So that's a that's all we have to go on based off the feedback from the tower because that comes out, you know, in live ATC that's

Mike (38:52): Yeah. Because he's trying to tell the ground sweep crew where to look, you know, and where to Yeah. Yeah. You know. And they might have felt like they were over threshold because this was behind them.

Mike (39:01): This was the back landing gear, and they're so they're forward of that. And that threshold is close to the highway. I mean, like, to their defense, it is close to the highway. I mean, but we do

Unknown Speaker (39:10): And they're going really fast. So I could

Mike (39:12): see where they probably thought don't, like and they thought it was the threshold, but then you gotta think, like, I know, approach lights? What did

Mike (39:19): you think you hit? I don't know. Like, that's maybe what I would thought, you know. You hit a bird sometimes, you're like, why don't when did you feel it? And you have to go back and think about it because there's a lot of things happening at the same time with and you could see they land in, a crab.

Mike (39:31): Like, the jet's not right, like, a line for that runway when they land because you can see it go over the highway. It's, like, crooked, and then it, like, makes this funky correction.

Mike (39:42): So yeah. Well, there though, man. This was close to a major catastrophe. I mean, it's Huge. Goodness gracious, man.

Unknown Speaker (39:49): I know. Right? So it'll be curious. We'll keep on top of it. We'll see what else comes about it.

Mike (39:53): I'm sure there's gonna be many more camera angles that come out about it, and we'll take a look at it for sure. So let's jump into the emails real quick, Mike. We we so I told you we were gonna chew up the show big time, so and that's good. I'm not I'm I'm totally okay with that. Here's an email shout out.

Unknown Speaker (40:09): So

Mike (40:10): I'm reading a Colin Powell's book right now. Actually, I just finished it. It's about leadership. The book's called It Worked For Me, which is pretty cool. He's an interesting character and everything.

Mike (40:19): He's a four star general, chairman of joint chief of staff. Secretary of State, if you don't know, check out that book, but it's it's super good, like, leadership book. And he talks about, like, the army and things that work for him in different aspects. He's a two tour Vietnam vet, and I mean, he's just a cool dude all around. But dude, there's a set it caught me at the end of the book because he even he start at the end of his career after he's secretary of state, he's like traveling the world as a speech giver, like that's his job, you know?

Unknown Speaker (40:46): Sure. He gives speech

Unknown Speaker (40:47): lot of people do that. Right?

Mike (40:48): Yeah. But he talks about in the book specifically being at Reagan National, and looking around the airport terminal, and talking about like the regional jets with like the Delta colors or the American colors and he's like, yeah, that's that's not a Delta plane. And he breaks that out in the in the book and I was just like, wow, like, it it hit me like on a couple levels because like people don't get that in one regard at all, normally. We get it because we talk about this. We did the regional world.

Mike (41:20): Sure. But at the same time, it's him talking about, like, the romanticization of aviation. Right? Here's this guy, like, he's accomplished, everything there is to accomplish. Mine is being, like, president, but he's still sitting there as a passenger in DCA and he's part of that.

Mike (41:39): And it's like he's still bewildered by the fact that people we get people where they gotta go in the tiny airplane and like how does it even happen? It's just that I think that really caught me as like, he's just thinking about that and he's he's a part of it, but he still has a wonder about it and like a fan a fantasy of it, which is I thought that was pretty cool that he

Mike (42:01): took I time to just say flew flew Jenna Bush while her dad George W was president. I flew her in to the president's daughter into DCA on a 50 c RJ from

Unknown Speaker (42:11): Oh, wow.

Mike (42:12): I wanna say it was either LaGuardia to DCA or Cincinnati to DCA. I can't remember which one. But she I think she had just written a book, so she was doing a book tour. And I remember going down the jet bridge and there was a guy behind me that checked in with the gate agent and she's like, yes, sir. Right away, sir.

Mike (42:30): And like, let him down. I'm like, oh, crap. He's in a suit and everything. I'm like, here come this FAA. Yep.

Mike (42:35): You know, and nothing FAA, I'm here to help. Right? He's like, he's like, sir, can I do the walk around with you? And I'm like, oh, crap. Yeah.

Mike (42:44): Yeah. Yeah. And he shows me his badge or whatever. He was not FAA. He was secret service.

Mike (42:48): He did the walk around with me to just to make sure the plane was secure for the president's daughter. Right? And it just kinda crazy. But I wouldn't be lying if I didn't say there was a little sense of relief when I didn't see FAA on his thing, you know, because not that we do anything wrong, but you just you just afraid they're gonna I don't know. It's just like

Mike (43:05): Especially junior in your career, less less experience in your career. Right?

Unknown Speaker (43:09): Sure. I had never been in the left seat. Was. I had only been at the airlines for maybe a year or two at that point, you know? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (43:16): It was, you know. Anyways, that's my story.

Unknown Speaker (43:20): But like like that That's a good celeb story, especially DCA.

Mike (43:24): But I just thought about it too because I and I was just on a comrade plane that said Delta on the side of it, but it was not a Delta flight. But yet, here's the president's daughter, you know, like so Yep.

Mike (43:33): And here's Colin Powell, like, just caught in the fantasy fantasy of what we do. Know, I think that's the You

Mike (43:37): kind of wonder how the airlines get how the airlines get away with that. You know, you could take these, you know, these 50 seat RJs. And at one point, you know, before the fifteen hundred hour rule, you could stick somebody with two hundred hours in the right seat of that thing and pump it out there and put Delta on the side of it and everyone thought they were on a Delta jet with these well trained pro pilots. And the one dude was just flying a seminal last week, know, like

Unknown Speaker (43:57): Yeah. Yeah. It's like if the

Mike (43:59): public knew everything, they'd probably be like, now that doesn't happen so much anymore because of the Buffalo crash and the fifteen hundred hour rules. These people are, you know, but, you know, it would I think people would be a lot more alert and weary if it's if they got on a plane that said Com Air or they got on a plane that said SkyWest or or a plane that said Republic, and not in Delta colors, in Republic colors, you know, not just operated by Republic Airways in small print right by the door when you get on, you know. Right.

Mike (44:25): But it's just fun that that even somebody like that is still caught in the world of aviation and Sure. Finds it fascinating. This goes along with the author kind of thing book stuff where we had email writing from Diane Mason who enjoys the show, so we appreciate her listening. And she wrote a book called Skybird seven two three Whiskey Tango, and Mike, you end up writing back to her and you have the book. So Mike's gonna read a book, everybody.

Mike (44:57): I have it. I I should've got it. I don't have it in the office with me. It's on the on the the coffee table out out by the in the living room. Otherwise, I should've I should be holding it up right now here because she sent it to me.

Mike (45:08): She said, hey, I know and I know she's real because one, I got a real book sent to me in the mail. But two, she's like, you know, know, I enjoy the show, but and I realized Mike doesn't read, but maybe he would give my book a shot or what. I'm like, sure. I'll I'll give it a shot. And I got it.

Mike (45:23): My kids think it's hilarious because I I opened it and my first thing was like, dang, it's a little bigger than I thought it was gonna be, you know, like, it's like 300 some pages and no pictures and, you know

Unknown Speaker (45:31): Pretty picture on the cover.

Mike (45:34): Yeah. But it's a true story. And I and I will read it and I will and I know you you were able to pick it up on your Kindle or whatever and you'll read it and I would like to talk about it and Yeah, we will. It sounds pretty interesting, you know. So Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (45:46): I think it's cool. We'll in on it. We can we can we can give that to her, you know. I think that'll be cool.

Unknown Speaker (45:51): Well, think so. I think that'll be fun.

Mike (45:53): So I'm definitely appreciative of that. And and and acknowledgement that I'm not a reader was pretty funny in her email, you know. That was funny too. Yeah.

Mike (46:03): Alright. We talked about this at the beginning of the show, Mike. But I think we should talk about this in another show. Because I think it's interesting because someone wrote in and asked, like, hey, they were in Dallas and they were taxiing out, and they and they know they they knew that the weather started coming around. And like you said, I've been on the jet before when it's, like, thunders and it shakes the airplane and there's lightning bolts of his night out of the sky and you're like, dude, we're gonna take off into this.

Mike (46:28): Especially I was I was was sitting on the Jet Bridge in Fort Lauderdale and the plane got struck by lightning on the tail. Oh, holy cow. Grounded it, but like, I mean, it happens.

Mike (46:38): Yeah. It's it's these these storms in summertime, there's frontal boundaries, and it's just part of the world. So if you, you know, if if we're if we board the jet and we're gonna we know the weather's coming, we're gonna taxi out, and then if we're not gonna make it in front of whatever frontal line line, or depending on which way the the flight plan is too, that you're gonna end up, like, shutting down. So, you know, we're gonna get instructions from the ground control because they're not gonna be launching into certain sectors and things like that. And so we we taxi the plane over and we shut it down because we're not gonna take off into something that's unsafe for us.

Unknown Speaker (47:10): Like, I don't wanna go into that weather as much as you don't wanna go into it. Right?

Unknown Speaker (47:14): Exactly.

Mike (47:14): And that's hopefully what that you would hear. So I think, like, we'll probably we should probably leave it at that. And let's pick it up there maybe on the next show and kinda talk about it. Because this person that wrote in said they had pulled over and they were uneasy about it because they're like, well, what does this mean? And it is kinda unsettling as you sit there and maybe there's a gust of wind and the jet's like rocking and you're like, what's going on

Mike (47:36): right now? Depths about it. But I mean, like, remember we talked about like when I my wife and I went to Vegas last month or whatever, we had to sit on the ramp because of weather. And even though it wasn't at our airport, it was just a little north. You know, they still shut down the route.

Mike (47:49): So sometimes it's not even the weather where you're at, it's just where you're gonna go and they need and air traffic control is gonna get busy. But yeah, our lives matter just as much as the people in the back and we're neither one of us not we're not going to put ourselves in the situation that we feel is unsafe. Not just for the people in the back, but for ourselves, you know, so that that's you can always have that safety blanket, I guess, for you is I'm not gonna go I'm not gonna put these people where I wouldn't want to be because I'm gonna be there too, you know.

Mike (48:16): Yeah. And sometimes air traffic control can lean on you. I'll I'll tell a story next week about how I kind of got leaned on and I was like, no, that's not gonna happen.

Mike (48:23): Were you the Pathfinder? Have you ever been asked to be the Pathfinder?

Unknown Speaker (48:26): No, I don't know.

Mike (48:27): I got asked to be the Pathfinder from we diverted to Tampa and we're gonna go to Orlando and the air traffic controller in Tampa was like, Hey, we got a path. Do you want to go first and let us know how it is? And the crazy thing was the crazy thing was I had FAA jumpseater. Oh, God. He rode with he was just going to Orlando.

Mike (48:44): And he we did the diversion and everything like here we go. Right? But he was like, guys did great, know, and then I looked at him when he offered me the Pathfinder rule. I was like, how you feel about that? And he's like, I'm good if you're good.

Unknown Speaker (48:55): I was like, board them up. Let's go.

Unknown Speaker (48:57): Let's go. This Pathfinder one zero one, we're gonna find our way through this weather. Let's go FAA aboard.

Unknown Speaker (49:04): Yeah. I mean That sounds like

Unknown Speaker (49:05): a military job Pathfinder. But I mean,

Mike (49:08): we could always have turned around and gone back to Tampa, right? Yeah, people would be like, oh, here we are diverting again, it'd be a big excellent. But like, again, I felt completely safe doing it. Never put the plane in an unsafe situation. We just were the first one to accept the route because a lot of planes had diverted, you know, and it was worked out really well.

Mike (49:26): It was a sporty approach. We can talk about that too on the next episode.

Mike (49:29): From an air traffic control standpoint too, like, don't wanna put planes in a bad place. But if they see like, these frontal things are always developing and changing too. So, like, if something's working that maybe could work and they think it looks good, like, they're not gonna ask you to do it if they don't think it's gonna be okay.

Mike (49:43): Easier to send one plane through there than 50 because the one plane can bobbin and where if you got 50 bobbin and weave, now you gotta not dodge clouds but dodge other airplanes and it becomes a total cluster. So it's easy to shoot one through a time then you can say, yeah, there's a hole there. It works good and they can send someone behind you and someone behind you. So it's I don't know. Yeah.

Mike (50:02): Sounds kinda archaic, but it still works.

Mike (50:04): Alright. Well, let's think about that for next time. We'll talk about two quick accidents from next time that involve low level windshield. We'll talk about low level windshield as well. Mike, I wanna thank you for bearing with me as I reconstructed my studio down here.

Mike (50:18): Nicole was doing a presentation for her work and the table that I have everything set up on totally collapsed on her, and she ended up having, like, her water went into her computer and she had like a big thing of tea and she was crying. I felt so bad and she's crying because she thinks that the podcast is ruined because like she's like, oh, your stuff is broken. I'm like, wow, like, it's kinda rigged It's and set up fine. Got

Unknown Speaker (50:40): a contract now. I can buy all new stuff.

Mike (50:42): So anyways, so I had to reset it up. We did some new camera angles and worked on some lighting and everything. So hopefully, it all comes together in the show. But hey, man. I thought it was a good show.

Unknown Speaker (50:52): Do you wanna add anything, Mike, before we go?

Mike (50:54): No. It's just, you know, just crazy times. It's it's that's what I love about this show. It's it's always something going on. We'll get off the show.

Unknown Speaker (51:01): We'll both be texting each other. Did you see this? There'll be some news that we didn't know about.

Unknown Speaker (51:04): We should've

Mike (51:04): talked about this on the show. It happens every time. It's a crazy industry, man. And I feel bad for the spirit guys, but it's a crazy industry and I love the ups and the downs. Like I said, I probably won't rest easy till I'm 65.

Mike (51:18): So This will.

Mike (51:20): Alright, everybody. We'll see you on the next show. Take care, Tom.

Tom (51:23): You've been listening to the Black Box Aviation Podcast. Real pilots, real stories, and aviation news the way it's actually talked about in the cockpit. If you like what you heard, make sure to like, subscribe, and follow so you don't miss an episode. Until next time, keep the blue sign up, and we'll see you at altitude.